| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
As long as you're editing that page I want it rearranged according to the subpages under the "Further Reading" heading. I want all games organized by their universe/gameplay. That means Giten and the Nihon Telenet games go into "Megami Tensei". I want Maken X off the website entirely. And oddball one off games go in the "Potpourri" section (hopefully no new strain of Megaten will emerge alphabetically behind Potpourri)
edited: Also all of those subpages need content themselves. They should be effectively similar to your Megaten Intro thread, but eventually more verbose I'd hope. Make your posts named like "Persona Titles Page", and "persona-titles-page". Let me know when you're working on that, and I'll change over the page templates.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 05:34:05 PM by yksehtniycul »
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
I would, but I'm not sure what line feed tags are?
Linefeed/newline tags are the HTML tags like <br> that force a carriage return (in typewriter days a linefeed/carriage return were different things but you get the point -- linefeed was the original name of the newline ascii character -- windows text files still use linefeed and carriage returns together)
10 – LF – Line feed
The line feed character is one of the characters in the ASCII character set that has been misused. Originaly, the LF character was ment to move the head of a printer one line down. A second control character CR would then be used to move the printing head to the left margin. This is the way it was implemented in many serial protocols and in operating systems like MS-DOS and Windows. On the other hand the C programming language and Unix operating system redefined this character as newline which ment a combination of line feed and carriage return. You can argue about which use is wrong. The way C and Unix handle it is certainly more natural from a programming point of view. On the other hand is the MS-DOS implementation closer to the original definition. It would have been better if both line feed and newline were part of the original ASCII definition because the first defines a typical device control functionality where the latter is a logical text separator. But this separation is not the case. Nowadays people tend to use the LF character mainly as newline function and most software that handles plain ASCII text files is capable of handling both single LF and CR/LF combinations. The control character is in the programming language C available as \n.
This is why Notepad and Wordpad will fuck up text files you get off the internet (or saved while using a Unix machine)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 06:08:24 PM by yksehtniycul »
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
Was DDSaga Avatar Tuner called "Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga" in the states? Not even with the Avatar Tuner subtitle?
Unfortunately yes, though they left the kana on the logo for some reason. I'm not sure they even used "Avatar Tuner," at all in the NA localization. The dubjob always seems to illicit positive reactions among NA gamers too for some reason, despite being some of the worst hack-jobs I've ever witnessed. In the opening movie Gale has a line of untranslated dialog, as well as periodically, throughout both games, certain lines will be said by the wrong character. Not to mention they gave Cielo some horrible faux-Caribbean accent... That's just my cursory evaluation too, I can't bring myself to watch the rest on youtube.
Some of the non home team characters look ok, but all of the main cast piss me off just looking at them. The whole titling bit blows my mind. I can't imagine what that meeting must've looked like. Not to mention what titular gymnastics will be required if Atlus releases a new Avatar Tuner game alongside a new kind of DDSaga title. Dunno why AtlusUSA fucks with the titles so much (in such petty ways) ...you'd think they would've learned with the who Revelations flirtation. Which might've been an ok idea, but who on earth thought Revelations was the right title to go with??? Christian video games anyone 
Yeah I've pointed that out before, but don't expect me to personally start messing with the content of articles... I'm all for it though over time. I'm currently giving credit to Tony for his articles, but if you see a factual error or anything simple go ahead and edit it. We can always give editing credits to his articles I suppose. So far all I've cut are broken links. I don't really feel comfortable chopping up Tony's work either so I think it's probably best to leave it as is until we can get up something better. Sucks we don't have more people volunteering but I've got something in mind that might help us fix that. So basically I'll migrate most of what he has up now as far as the games section is concerned, probably that Lucifer vs. Satan article and whatever else seems generally pertinent. I'll make a list of what I think should be reworked and what's missing and go from there.
To be honest if this site ever had a chance of fulfilling it's mission, the best thing that could've happened was Tony handing it over. Though the way everything unfurled was pretty fucked up. No way could Tony or any person do everything alone, and the way the site was organized was hopeless in the long run in terms of scalability, and made collaboration nearly impossible.
Alternatively you could look into nTune and try underclocking your card. I'd try that first if you can figure it out. I've hard to underclock many of my cards to play some games that use the hardware too aggressively.
It worries me though that my OS and browser are using my graphics card too aggressively though. 
[/quote]
Well it could be your card is just under the weather. I'm not sure why cards sometimes have to be underclocked even when brand new. You'd think the industry could figure out a better solution. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a driver bug or what, but it's worth trying. One thing I've learned about my new laptop that has me up in arms, is apparently no new drivers work with laptops. The laptop manufacturer must repackage the drivers and offer them to their laptop owners directly. I'm about to call up my laptop's company and demand modern drivers after so many revisions have been made available. I don't know what the philosophy is there.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 06:32:35 PM by yksehtniycul »
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
I would, but I'm not sure what line feed tags are?
Linefeed/newline tags are the HTML tags like <br> that force a carriage return (in typewriter days a linefeed/carriage return were different things but you get the point -- linefeed was the original name of the newline ascii character -- windows text files still use linefeed and carriage returns together) 10 – LF – Line feed
The line feed character is one of the characters in the ASCII character set that has been misused. Originaly, the LF character was ment to move the head of a printer one line down. A second control character CR would then be used to move the printing head to the left margin. This is the way it was implemented in many serial protocols and in operating systems like MS-DOS and Windows. On the other hand the C programming language and Unix operating system redefined this character as newline which ment a combination of line feed and carriage return. You can argue about which use is wrong. The way C and Unix handle it is certainly more natural from a programming point of view. On the other hand is the MS-DOS implementation closer to the original definition. It would have been better if both line feed and newline were part of the original ASCII definition because the first defines a typical device control functionality where the latter is a logical text separator. But this separation is not the case. Nowadays people tend to use the LF character mainly as newline function and most software that handles plain ASCII text files is capable of handling both single LF and CR/LF combinations. The control character is in the programming language C available as \n. This is why Notepad and Wordpad will fuck up text files you get off the internet (or saved while using a Unix machine)
<p>,</p> would've sufficed. 
As long as you're editing that page I want it rearranged according to the subpages under the "Further Reading" heading. I want all games organized by their universe/gameplay. That means Giten and the Nihon Telenet games go into "Megami Tensei". I want Maken X off the website entirely. And oddball one off games go in the "Potpourri" section (hopefully no new strain of Megaten will emerge alphabetically behind Potpourri)
edited: Also all of those subpages need content themselves. They should be effectively similar to your Megaten Intro thread, but eventually more verbose I'd hope. Make your posts named like "Persona Titles Page", and "persona-titles-page". Let me know when you're working on that, and I'll change over the page templates.
Maken X/Shao artwork is featured in some official Megaten artbooks as well as being developed both by Atlus and R&D1. I suppose it's debatable but the way the sword has to make philosophical decisions parallels that of the tried and true Law/Neutral/Chaos, so it's not like it isn't a major relation. Megami Tensei isn't on the packaging anywhere, but it's not on Digital Devil Saga either. I actually agree with you that it probably doesn't belong up there but I don't think we should be too hasty.
I'll edit the page titles right now but I might as well rewrite the games page and that'll probably have to wait until tomorrow. No sense in putting Tony's name at the bottom then either. 
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
Is a dubjob like a hitjob? DDSaga just has some of the weirdest looking characters (not to mention demons or whatever) Some of the non home team characters look ok, but all of the main cast piss me off just looking at them. The whole titling bit blows my mind. I can't imagine what that meeting must've looked like. Not to mention what titular gymnastics will be required if Atlus releases a new Avatar Tuner game alongside a new kind of DDSaga title. Dunno why AtlusUSA fucks with the titles so much (in such petty ways) ...you'd think they would've learned with the who Revelations flirtation. Which might've been an ok idea, but who on earth thought Revelations was the right title to go with??? Christian video games anyone
That was probably the biggest let down of the DDSaga series was the lack of characters. The way the Mantra system works you wouldn't have been able to afford to level up another one though. Still the characters didn't bother me as much as Persona 3's did.
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
You're just acting as an editor. It's still Tony's work.
Maken X doesn't belong on the site. Certainly not in the Games sections. You could include it in artbooks or a Kaneko/Atlus bio or whatever. Or even an article about the similarities. But not in the Games area period. We're not going to host a database for it or FAQs, so it just doesn't belong.
You shouldn't have to rewrite the game page, just shift the listings around for now. If you want your name on a page, fill in some of the subpages.
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
I didn't want my name up there at all I just thought it would be weird to paste his name onto something that would be unrecognizable as his previous page. If I'm just shifting things around a bit I don't mind, but if I'm going to have to rewrite the whole thing eventually... 
I think you're being too obtuse about Maken X. It certainly deserves a mention on the games page. We don't have to host FAQs or whatever but it deserves a shout at the very least, most likely to link to a future article on the subject; where it does/doesn't fit into the Megaten universe.
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
Maken X doesn't fit into the Megaten universe. I owned a copy and beat it. I love a first person close combat game as much as the next guy, but it isn't Megaten. At best it's associated with Atlus/Kaneko Kazuma, which is not the sole producer of Megaten products, and even if they were it still wouldn't qualify. I'm not being obtuse, it just isn't Megaten by any standard period, ergo it does not belong.
By that same logic neither is Jack Bros. or Shin Megami Tensei Pinball.  Sucks to your "at best," it was made by the exact same group of people, who, though not the sole purveyor of Megaten products, have produced enough of them to at least afford a mention.
P.S. Can we please NOT call the Miscellaneous section "Potpourri?" That doesn't even make any sense. 
Potpourri or Pot-Pourri [pō-poo’rē] (French, literally "rotten pot") was originally a term applied to a jar with a mixture of dried flower petals and spices used to scent the air. It can refer to:
* Potpourri, a mixture of dried, naturally fragrant plant material
* Potpourri (Jones / Lewis album), a 1974 big band jazz album recorded by the Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Jazz Orchestra
* Potpourri (album), a recording by Japanese techno-pop band P-Model
* Pot-Pourri (group), an Australian opera/musical theatre group
* Potpourri (music), a kind of musical form structured as ABCDEF...
* The Potpourri, a Texas weekly newspaper covering two communities Northwest of Houston
* Akrobatisches Potpourri, an 1895 German silent film / documentary
* Potpourrii, a puzzle video game
1. a mixture of dried petals of roses or other flowers with spices, kept in a jar for their fragrance.
2. a musical medley.
3. a collection of miscellaneous literary extracts.
4. any mixture, esp. of unrelated objects, subjects, etc.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 11:15:24 PM by DevilRy »
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
3. a collection of miscellaneous literary extracts.
4. any mixture, esp. of unrelated objects, subjects, etc.
Seems fine to me. If you can come up with a better word that comes alphabetically after Persona I'll consider it.
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
3. a collection of miscellaneous literary extracts.
4. any mixture, esp. of unrelated objects, subjects, etc. Seems fine to me. If you can come up with a better word that comes alphabetically after Persona I'll consider it.
*sigh* They aren't literary extracts, one, and two, they pointedly ARE related objects and subjects. If we were including essays about politics and agriculture etc. it would be one thing, but since anything that fell under that category would be a video game related to Megami Tensei we can't rightly call it that without being completely wrong. It's probably the least appropriate word to be using.
Other possible names for the section: Assorted, Random, Various, Miscellanea, etc.
I wouldn't be so concerned with a miscellaneous section occurring last if you're listing it alphabetically anyway. "Assorted," and "Various," are both good choices if you want to preserve the general order of things. Also, you'd probably want to list Devil Children, Majin Tensei, and the Last Bible series under the Miscellanea section, otherwise there really wouldn't be too much point in having it up in the first place. If you don't want Maken X mentioned than the only other game that would technically belong in that category would be Jack Bros, which is about as related to Megaten as Maken X/Shao are, so... Something to think about at least.
In the meantime I'm working on expanding the Intro to Megaten thread into usable material for the "series" pages we've got in the works. I'm editing up what I've got for Devil Summoner at the moment and I'll probably tackle DDSaga next, just because it's relatively short and the Megaten game series I've most recently played through.
Your DDS2 and Jack Bros articles have the same unbroken lines issues (no <br> etc. tags)
This must be something Wordpress is doing in the editing phase. I just straight copy the HTML. I'm thinking it might remove them after I edit if I don't make sure to switch to the HTML mode before submitting. It's done it to me a couple of times when I went back in to edit the permalinks. I'll look through it a bit on in the evening if I have time.
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
3. a collection of miscellaneous literary extracts.
4. any mixture, esp. of unrelated objects, subjects, etc. Seems fine to me. If you can come up with a better word that comes alphabetically after Persona I'll consider it.
Geez you're really nitpicking this time. Both definitions register as true. This is what people mean when saying Potpourri colloquially. Yes it must be the last item in the menu. No it's not worth hacking around. No I don't think your suggestions so far will work in place but keep trying. And I think it works fine given the basically domesticated tenner of the main site.
Also, you'd probably want to list Devil Children, Majin Tensei, and the Last Bible series under the Miscellanea section, otherwise there really wouldn't be too much point in having it up in the first place. If you don't want Maken X mentioned than the only other game that would technically belong in that category would be Jack Bros, which is about as related to Megaten as Maken X/Shao are, so... Something to think about at least.
There is also Pinball and probably other oddities. That's why it's last. How is Jack Bros not Megaten related btw? You're just rabble rousing.
We don't play favorites in the listings. All those games deserve their own sections. They have distinct universes and gameplay, and are clearly more than footnotes. The Majin series for one is damn awesome if you got the time for turn based strategy.
In the meantime I'm working on expanding the Intro to Megaten thread into usable material for the "series" pages we've got in the works. I'm editing up what I've got for Devil Summoner at the moment and I'll probably tackle DDSaga next, just because it's relatively short and the Megaten game series I've most recently played through.
Godspeed.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:38:13 PM by yksehtniycul »
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
Geez you're really nitpicking this time. Both definitions register as true.
I'm not being nit-picky, it's just plainly the wrong word to use. Neither definitions apply. 'Literary extracts' are excerpts from copied or cited material. I've already explained why the other definition can't apply either, besides the fact that it's pointedly a French word that means "rotten pot." It just does not mean what you think it means.
This is what people mean when saying Potpourri colloquially.
No, they think "a small pot of dried, naturally fragrant plant material that middle class people put in their houses." I've never ever EVER in my life heard anyone use this word in a sentence in non-relation to aforementioned plant material, let alone to describe a loose collection of alike informational material.
Yes it must be the last item in the menu. No it's not worth hacking around. No I don't think your suggestions so far will work in place but keep trying. And I think it works fine given the basically domesticated tenner of the main site.
Do you mean "tenor?" As in an habitual condition? Then it doesn't fit the site at all unless you've started an internet gifting business you're not telling me about. I'm telling you, as someone who is very familiar with the English language, it's the dead wrong word to use and yes, very much worth changing if you don't want to appear stupid.
There is also Pinball and probably other oddities. That's why it's last. How is Jack Bros not Megaten related btw? You're just rabble rousing.
Jack Bros. is basically an Atlus mascot game. The gameplay consists of running around mazes and collecting keys. That's hardly Megaten.
We don't play favorites in the listings. All those games deserve their own sections. They have distinct universes and gameplay, and are clearly more than footnotes. The Majin series for one is damn awesome if you got the time for turn based strategy.
Like it or not, they really were footnotes. There hasn't been a Devil Children game made in four years, Majin Tensei in 10 (if you don't count Japanese cell phone mini games), Last Bible in 9 and that was a rerelease... It really is like you are playing favorites though by giving more or less dead game lines their own sections.
"Others," is probably your best choice if it simply *must* be at the bottom. "Derivatives," "Spin-offs," "More," anything but potpourri.
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
I'm not being nit-picky, it's just plainly the wrong word to use. Neither definitions apply. 'Literary extracts' are excerpts from copied or cited material. I've already explained why the other definition can't apply either, besides the fact that it's pointedly a French word that means "rotten pot." It just does not mean what you think it means.
Jesus, what have you got against Potpourri? You're taking those definitions too literally... it's just a dictionary after all.
No, they think "a small pot of dried, naturally fragrant plant material that middle class people put in their houses." I've never ever EVER in my life heard anyone use this word in a sentence in non-relation to aforementioned plant material, let alone to describe a loose collection of alike informational material.
We use that word around here all the time. It was actually the first word that popped into my head, and I was relieved it came after Persona cause I couldn't think of anything else that felt natural. It's not as if I scoured a thesaurus for that word.
Do you mean "tenor?" As in an habitual condition?
I thought that was a falsetto singer, but yes of course. I guarantee you it's acceptable usage. It doesn't mean "rotten pot" anymore obviously, that is just etymology. You're just being a real fag about this. You're better off coming up with a suitable alternative.
Jack Bros. is basically an Atlus mascot game. The gameplay consists of running around mazes and collecting keys. That's hardly Megaten.
All the characters are from Megaten. Give it up with this fucked up logic.
Like it or not, they really were footnotes. There hasn't been a Devil Children game made in four years, Majin Tensei in 10 (if you don't count Japanese cell phone mini games), Last Bible in 9 and that was a rerelease... It really is like you are playing favorites though by giving more or less dead game lines their own sections.
There hasn't been a true Megaten game made in many more years than that. So by definition Megaten cannon is a footnote??
"Others," is probably your best choice if it simply *must* be at the bottom. "Derivatives," "Spin-offs," "More," anything but potpourri.
O before P.
First page of google results: http://www.civilwarhome.com/potpourr.htm
I advise you pick your battles more judiciously in the future...
I don't get into arguments if I'm not right.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 09:43:20 AM by yksehtniycul »
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
Jesus, what have you got against Potpourri? You're taking those definitions too literally... it's just a dictionary after all.
Because it's the *wrong* word. I don't have anything personally against it, I do have something against people who are insistent about using the wrong words though. 
We use that word around here all the time. It was actually the first word that popped into my head, and I was relieved it came after Persona cause I couldn't think of anything else that felt natural. It's not as if I scoured a thesaurus for that word.
I highly doubt that you use it at all regularly, and when you do use it to describe something like this you're completely wrong. Simple as that. It may feel natural to you, but looks unnatural (and WRONG) to anyone who didn't grow up in the rural South of North America.
I thought that was a falsetto singer, but yes of course. I guarantee you it's acceptable usage. It doesn't mean "rotten pot" anymore obviously, that is just etymology. You're just being a real fag about this. You're better off coming up with a suitable alternative.
You can see why I don't exactly trust your judgment, as far as the English language is concerned, when you're using homophones to describe something completely different than what you mean. A "tenner" is a ten dollar bill, dude. A "Tenor," singer doesn't even sing falsetto!!!!! Can you be any more insistently ignorant? "Rotten pot," is NOT etymology, it's what the word fucking means in French, guy. And you're being a real grade-F, undereducated Southern moron about this. You're better off changing it before you accidentally dig yourself any further into your hole of misinformation.
All the characters are from Megaten. Give it up with this fucked up logic.
Jack Frost is also in SBK: Snowboard Kids and Etrian Odyssey II. Though he may have originated with Megaten, by the same logic Maken X/Shao also belongs on the list, since it also originated with Megaten. Jack Bros. is a mascot game. It's not fucked up logic, it's using your same logic to preclude it.
There hasn't been a true Megaten game made in many more years than that. So by definition Megaten cannon is a footnote??
According to you. How you cannot see that as playing favorites...  It really is like talking to a brick wall some times.
I advise you to not to use anecdotal evidence to support your claims when the person you're arguing with is using dictionaries and language reference books to back up his own. You plainly get into arguments ALL THE FREAKING TIME when you're wrong. You just refuse to cop up to it 99.9% of the time so people just give up trying to assail that Ivory Tower.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 03:00:55 PM by DevilRy »
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
I haven't actuallly entered many posts myself yet. Just the two sticky news items. But I don't think I've noticed anything strange from the admin perspective. What's going on must be a prefilter (filtering your input before it goes into the database) ...I might look into disabling all prefilters, but try to see if there aren't some odd options you're using. You're not using the "visual editor" are you? I think it's off by default, but it's basically wysiwyg. Just try to figure out what you can about what is going on if it's not too much trouble.
It defaults to the visual editor. I must have left it in that mode when I went back in to change the permalink and saved the changes.
I think you'll find an option for this in your user profile.
The tenor generally sings in falsetto voice
I thought that was true, but what do I know.
I do one round of bullet point replies then I'm out of the ball game.
If the game was called Jack Boarders and didn't feature characters from other games equally it would be Megaten enough.
In English, "potpourri" is often used to refer to any collection of miscellaneous or diverse items.
You're just being neurotic and childish, and if you can find any instance where I'm technically wrong you win a prize.
If you're offended by a French loan word or the cut of it's jib or whatever, ok. I'll consider suitable replacements as they're presented. But the usage is not wrong by any measure... you however are on this petty point. Give it up
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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