DIGITAL_DEVIL_DATABASE Community Forum

So, there's rumors going around that KOEI is going to be releasing Persona 3 in the UK in 2008.

So, I'm thinking, it would be to everyone's benefit if we began trying to find out exactly who is distributing/re-translating Persona 3 for Europe and then begging, pleading, petitioning, paying, worshipping them until they try to include Fes in their release.

That's probably the only real way to enjoy it outside of importing it and learning Japanese.  So...

Maybe its a futile idea, but I think its honestly our best chance right now.

I honestly don't see why people aren't satisfied with 100+ hours of gameplay in the first place. Plus, where have you heard these rumours? If it isn't from a credible place, then I don't really care. I don't see any such info on Koei's site, unless I'm went over something.

On Amazon.co.uk, it says they expect Persona in 2008. I did read somewhere (I honestly can't remember) that KOEI are going to publish it. I think there's a good chance it will - all the Megaten games that have come out on these shores (I also live in the UK) have done well so it prolly will be released.

I wouldn't bother though - we won't get the shiny packaging or the artbook. Plus we'll most likely get big, black PAL borders. The NTSC copies are superior anyway. Alas, you need a chipped or modded PS2 to run the game. My one works fine.

I'll  wish the best for  you UK-ers. It'd be awesome  if you got Festival. No jealousy issues  at all. Just be sure to tell me how cool the extra content is if you get the whole package!

UK huh. . ? That means that it's going to be. . PAL version . . Guess there's no way that my country would get that.
Oh well, best of luck then :P

Honestly, I think it would be entirely worth modding your PS2 just to import Fes from the UK.

I doubt it is possible to mod a NTSC console for PAL gameplay, the television resolutions are different and incompatible as far as I know. Unless the PAL units are just cheap hacks that postprocess NTSC output.

--AtlusUSA obviously doesn't care about the completeness of the game. If they knew about Festival etc, it should've been included as a second disc, if they didn't want to do another release.

Nah, I've got a few PAL games I play and its no problem.  At least with Swap Magic.  You can just set it to NTSC or PAL and it'll 'adjust' the game for your display and all that jazz.

Even then, if you get a TV tuner card ($15 5 years ago - cheaper now I'm sure) then you can just run it through your PC monitor, have a crisper image, AND it'll automatically handle PAL/NTSC/etc.

There are ways.  Plenty.  Like I said, I pray the UK releases Fes, its our only chance.

I'm not talking about swapping or the compability of my televison and PS2. . I'm talking about the release itself in my country. Honestly, I don't think there's anyone who'll bothered to download the game/import it and release it in here T_T

There's so much content that even with another Aegis branch, which we don't really need because she plays an extremely pivotal role in the story and we get multiple facets of her personality and major development, it wouldn't really matter. I for one am satisfied with the fact that I played the game for 110 hours on my first play through, got 91% done on the compendium and only maxed out a few S-links. That alone justifies at least 2 more playthroughs to max out other S-links to see how everything else plays out. After that, another S-link and a couple of quirps here and there won't mean much.

Is it that people cannot be satisifed until they know they have everything in the game? Or is it just wanting for the sake of wanting something when you already have enough? I know that P3 is enough for me already, and am in no rush to get FES.

I personally would like to play FES for the storyline, but, to each their own, I guess.

I just want FES for the Maxed out Commu endings mostly.

I can definitely see where Neao is coming from. Persona 3 is an extremely exhausting game - almost as epic as Lucifer's Call (if you don't know, Lucifer's Call is the UK name for Shin Megami Nocturne Maniacs). Atlus will prolly just release a transcribed version of the NTSC-US original, hence why Europeans always get inferior copies i.e. the big black borders.

Fes is a curiousity more than a must-have for me. I have gotten my monies worth out of P3 and not playing FES would just be another game western gamers have missed out on. Look at Shadow Hearts Covenant: Director's Cut.

I do believe a PS2 chipping system for NTSC PS2s exists in the forms of disc swapping and modding/chipping. I think you'll have to search pretty hard for it though.

I want FES, to have all the P3 games completed, since is my favorite serie of Megaten.

Have you played any of the other Persona games?

Personally, I'm not sure which is better - Persona EP or P3. I'm still deciding. EP's story had something more to it than P3, but P3 is more fum to play through (I'm sorry, but the amount of time you had to grind for Alice in EP was NOT fun).

I agree P3 is a strong game even without the additional Festival content.(Though face it the bonus stuff would sweeten the deal even more.) If Atlus USA "didn't care" we would not have gotten  P3 at all much less the art book or the music cd yksehtniycul. Considering harsh censorship laws here,the religious climate, and a "mature" label it was risky releasing P3 to us. Is this going to turn into a "Atlus USA sucks!" grudge match? I certainly hope not. I hate debates that turn into bigot-brawls. Especially since on my end though I am "American" I would be happy for gamers in the Untied Kingdom if they got Festival.

The amount of games that have been denied to us European gamers is ridiculous. Atlus should just release P3 to us in all it's glory to make up for the lack of releasing any previous Persona.

You read that right - we haven't got one Persona title yet.

*fumes*

A lot of people who play these sorts of games are completists. Personally I tend to pickup a game like this and either put it down in 30mins, or play to 100% then move on to additions.


As for PAL, I'd assumed a significant portion of European porting was a matter of display resolution, since PAL can display about 20% more game I think. I'm not sure how "Swap Magic" works in that regard, but I intend to look into SM because that might be the way to play that P3 bittorrent. I was once referred to it for ripping PS2 memcards for emulator use. If I have to monkey with my PS2 physically to use it though, I'll likely opt out. As I recall it was just a disc. I wonder if you can just dl the iso, or if something must be bought. Whatever the case its on my todo list now!

Its a shame if NTSC games are always just blownup for PAL. Europeans deserve something for all that waiting and price hiking :mickey:

Funny how you talk about piracy of this game casually, yet turn around and show some form of sympathy for Europeans when they have to pay extra. Why don't they all just pirate it? Problem solved.

I've never even played a Megaten game on an emulator (Well I have played MajinTensei emulated for "fastforwarding")

There are many reasons for "pirating" which are benign, and even highly ethical reasons for doing so. For instance, if P3 really blows, you don't want to encourage Atlus to keep making games that way, and you don't want to blindly hand them your money without trying it out first.

It woud cost me about 20$ to dl a bittorrent that size. Where as you can probably rent the game for 4$. Hopefully I wouldn't need that bandwidth. Quit wasting decent peoples time by second guessing their judgment and morals. Now gently place your mouth back around AtlusUSA's...

Just because I'm against piracy of games, doesn't mean I blow Atlus' localization team's dick.

I highly doubt that pirating a game can't be harmful in anyway. If you can't afford it, or don't want to give 50$ for it, then you should wait till you have enough cash or you shouldn't be playing it in the first place. There is no ethical reason for pirating, there is no mutualism going on. You are basically stealing the developing team's life by pirating it. They took their time to make this game, so pay for it god damn it. It's not the fact of 'if P3 blows' it's that once you've played the emulation, chances are you're not going to buy it. Every time I've bought a game I've liked it. It could be that I was lucky, or that I actually read about the concept of the game from the main site. Even if I didn't like it, there's always a 7 day return policy for opened items.

Man, justifing piracy. That's a real good one.

Don't turn my damned thread into a piracy discussion.

I was only suggesting that Koei is our last hope at trying to get Fes in the English language, so we should try and do what we can and let our opinions be heard to them.

Personally, call it shallow all you want, but I want Fes for all the character costumes and the new persona.

I don't own nor want a US region PS2. Mind your own business.

If I checked, its probably about the right window in which it is sometimes possible to import games for peanuts. But I don't want to give Atlus my money outright, because I suspect the game will be more retarded than not, and I don't want to encourage that. The market doesn't work without informed consumers.

Look at it this way... if I didn't pirate the game, Atlus would definately not be getting my money. If I do pirate it, Atlus might. If that isn't ethical, I don't know what is.


editted: The game can't likely be emulated even at half mast, and would require a monster PC to do so. Plus I don't play games in English, and why invest in a save game which could not be transferred to FES etc?

No, you just don't want to take risks when buying games, which could possibly speak more about you, but who knows?. Then you cover it up by pirating and trying to justify pirating when confronted about it. If you didn't buy a US region PS2, then I don't really know what to say. That was just a bad idea, if you actually live in the US. You have a real skewed way of looking at things. Regardless, import the game or whatever, I just don't really care anymore and won't really respond to the thread. This will just turn into another useless argument where someone doesn't realize they're wrong.

Mine was only a vane attempt to persuade against being so quick to judge people whom nothing is known, painting broad generalizations which only serve to muck up legitimate conversations. Why wouold I want a US region PS2?

Well, going partially against what I said before about not responding, the red 'new post' icon pulled me into read. I never said you wanted a PS2 or you should get one, I said it was a bad idea if you live in the US and to only own a PS2 that isn't even US coded, read the post before you reply.

I didn't really judge you as a person. You said you pirated games, I used that and chose my stance on it. I really didn't have any thoughts about you as a human being other than you liked to pirate games and not shell out the money to get a real copy the way Atlus intended you to get it, import or not. But whatever dude, I can't stop you from pirating, go pirate all the stuff you want.

Lycanthroat is right. UK gets gyped a lot. Making Europeans pay more is retarded as is "pal versions" working differently. I remember years ago one of my aussie friends thought about getting me FF8 for my birthday and then she found out she could not because it "ran differently" and yes, it was very expensive.

Getting Persona Festival might make up for some of the crappy moments in gaming the UK has likely experienced in the past.

I'm still not fond of outright piracy or rather justifying it but then again I imagine if some gamers know they'll never get their favorite games it might become more  tempting. That in mind however, I know for a fact even "if" Japan sent Europeans more titles certain slimey individuals would find another excuse to justify ripping games . You'll always have a niche group of people that are out for themselves and getting stuff for free no matter how much it penalizes the innocent consumers or hurts a certain company.

There's a difference between "pirating" because someone is broke and normally wouldn't be able to get that special something that improves their life versus "pirating" simply because they can do it and think it is "cool". As with anything in life the integrity of character is measured by motive and the situation.

Discussing "pirating" and noncorporeal products in the same breath is pretty absurd. Nevertheless, the closest I've ever personally come to "pirating" a video game is downloading GBA roms. I just don't do portables, but you can call that an excuse if you like.  

When you are buying a game, as far as any kind of realistic capitalism is concerned, you are buying a box, manual, and medium etc (a game isn't capital)

Piracy and hackers are a vital part of any kind of true market driven capitalism. Blindly denouncing "piracy" and exalting publishers to the level of saints makes you a bad consumer, which is anti-capitalist, which is anti-american if you want to be so pejoratively polemical.

A game is a virtual commodity. Well the version of the game you can download that is. P2P is no different than the public library system (except that it avoids serious realities such as fuel and floorspace)

A publisher with a favorable fanbase like Atlus has nothing to fear and can only gain. Only formless and abusive entities need fret -- video game wise you have your EAs and SquareEnixes etc.

Piracy is both vital and non-vital to capitalism. Pirating just redirects where the money you would spend goes to. Which in turn takes money away from a company that SHOULD have gotten the money. So, with people doing this at mass, it actually turns into a mass form of regulation. Which is what capitalism strives to get away from. So really, there is no true market driven capitalism, I don't really know what you were referring to.

Piracy ? . . .
That's something that cannot be avoided in my country. I mean, all the games in here (Wii, NDS, PSP, XBOX, PS2) all has been pirated :D
Cool huh ?
I mean, no Original that can be selled here, it just won't take fortunes.
Damn PAL , damn PAL , damn PAL >_>;;

It can't be avoided in any country. But whatever, I'm done. I'm tired of coming here and thinking "What did he post this time."

If P3 is getting distributed within Europe, chances are Ghostlight will be doing it (as they did previously with DDS, LC and Devil Summoner....).

In regards to piracy, support the devs and buy it legally


2c

Geez, I can see now why the other thread degenerated to the point of fascist name calling.

Its difficult to tell whether brand loyalty is simply being touted, or intrinsically fascist perspectives are being vocalized.

Modern "pirating" is a vital force in capitalism, as could be the more traditional variety. In developed nations it is a bulwark against fascism. In poor nations it is a means for people to elevate their minds and help spead competitive markets into their regions.

No one has suggested somehow depriving Atlus its dues. Everyone understands without money, no more games! Why sensationalize an already loaded argument in which you've presumably zero stock?

A simple search:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/130105fascistsymbols.htm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Fasces

Intrinsically fascism is probably not even necessarily a good or bad thing, but know your p's and q's. Use your head or lose it.

Do not call me a facist. I never really called you anything, and I ask you to do the same. I don't support fascism, and I can't see how you got to that conclusion. All I said is that there is/was never a true capitalist country. I do, however, think capitalism is great. By the way, stop thinking that you are right. I have said that piracy is needed to an extent, I do understand your viewpoint. Stop being so arrogant and see the other side too. Thinking that I have 'zero stock' in my idea that piracy is wrong is ridiculous, it is a valid point that it should not be done. How can you believe in something that is illegal and wrong with such conviction?

By the way, if I'm against gaming piracy, I'm not a fascist and I don't suck someone's dick. You are the one that actually insulted someone for what they believe.

Gods. This is a Megaten fan-site. People  are meant to get together and have fun not impale each other. I know differences in opinion will arise but that's no reason to hate someone or say they suck the man-stick. Once someone goes as low as flaming to me they lose credibility.

I've encountered what can be considered a "anti-establishment-elitism" attitude before. It boils down to calling someone fascist just for being American and because they were raised in a society driven by capitalism and democracy. Quite bigoted if you ask me.

First off not all Americans think the same. Not all of us like what is happening in the Middle East. Not all of us are patriotic to the point we think America is absolutely perfect. Not all of us like getting drunk, spouting about religion, or  have narrow minded views on sexuality and immigration. We are individuals just like people in Europe and Asia are individuals.

The bottom line is in most scenarios piracy IS wrong.(Though exceptions always exist.) It cuts into the profit margin of an honest company putting out an honest quality product.(aka Atlus) Sure it may start out as a small isolated incident where only say 50 people download P3 illegally but that can grow into something bigger resulting in Atlus wanting nothing to do with a particular place just because a few selfish individuals had to shoot up the credibility of the people they represent through digital theft. Thus if piracy goes wrong it DOES NOT just effect pirates it effects the consumers in a particular area as well.

I admit a world in which I could get everything for free is appealing but this is the end result.

1. Everyone or at least a lot of people become pirates and get crap loads of free awesome stuff. Yeah, seems great!

2. The illegal distributors get credit to hand out pirated goods becoming filthy rich or at least pretty well off.

3. The company that made said product gets no money or rather not enough money to keep up production. They close shop and are unable to create future quality products.

4. People whine a company like Atlus is no more. Where is Persona 4 or the next Devil summoner? In the limbo of bankruptcy yet to be finished.

5. The people with the money that Atlus should have got are good at ripping but they ARE NOT good at programming. Thus even with their piles of cash they're not able to help crank out more games.

6. Of course a big company like SE or Disney  is not going to be brought down by pirates. However a lot of companies that put out good entertainment are not nearly as big or well off so yes, they can be effected by piracy. I call that "common sense."

When it is right? Maybe if you plan to buy the original product when you can and are broke now it is acceptable or it is the "only way" you can get certain things in your country. I don't think entertainment should be for just a select few but at the same time to do it just for bragging rights or as a status symbol is juvenile and stupid.

Man, what have I been saying for the past 10 posts?:P Good job at taking the middle ground nightsavior. This argument is pointless here and fills up a thread with needless shit. Thus, making nightsavior make a lengthy post, filling the thread up with more off-topic, needless shit. Not that our ideas are shit, but you know what I mean.

Good point. Back on topic then Neao. lol.

UK+ Persona 3 or FES = Good. That simple.

Goodness, I never pointed the fascist finger at anybody.

It seems your avatar pretty much sums up the ceiling of any dialogue you choose to interject in.

(http://www.digitaldevildb.com/bbs/image.php?u=472&dateline=1187676782)

Other than just now, did I ever address anyone personally? Cool your jets.

Piracy is a tool, it doesn't make a person greedy or selfish. That is up to the calibur of people.  Even if such a scenario was a technical and unescapible reality, which it could realistically be someday. Atlus would require benifactors to donate to their studios to keep the games coming. Which is actually the way art has been done for the glut of the existence of the human race. When you consciously choose to purchase a game, you are in essence making a donation to Atlus. You can't regulate morality. When a government tries to it only makes people bitter and more likely to take acts like piracy for granted. This has been the case ever since consumer tape recorders hit the scene for example. Industry shit itself over those too, but their profits only soared. Piracy is basically exposure. If the product is good, the people will embrace it. If it is not, piracy is a way of miitigating the false introduction of shotty commodities into the market place.

It is true with console games you can generally rent first. Consider theatrical releases though for example. Reviewers are great, but what if you are a sort of person with completely other values than reviewers.

Piracy also forces the industry business model to catch up with evolving technology. That is the problem the music industry is facing right now. People pirate music, not to be thrifty, but because it is so infinitely more convenient. The industry has to find new delivery mechanisms for music. They are trying, but the price they are asking is still at least three times too much, and the restrictions are absurd, so that industry will continue to grapple with piracy until it catches up with the realities of the 21st century.

Btw, these lengthy ideological posts are largely rhetorical. I enjoy the chance to think through these ethical dilemmas and am  happy to share as long as the question is posed. But please don't mistake observation for an invitation to spar over personal belief systems.

And just for the record, large questioonable institutions like Disney would be the most likely to faulter under the pressures of long term piracy, and are most likely where the heavy handed resistance to piracy originates.

I do think this topic is quite relevant to the thread btw, but I encourage anyone to not persue a personal stake in it.

Yksehtniycul you need to calm down. You weren't pointing your finger at anyone and calling them a facist, but you were certainly alluding to some form of it being here.  

By the way, I never told you to do anything, I chose my avatar because it was a funny play on a very calm and reserved character. I, and even nightsavior, try to end this argument and you further it by trying to insult me because of an avatar I like? I think that says more about you than my avatar could ever say about me. Stop contradicting yourself, you keep on getting on my case for name calling or insulting or having a humorous avatar. You are the first one to say I suck Atlus' dick for saying piracy is wrong. You are the first one to insult me for something I took a stance on.  

And I honestly think telling someone not to take a 'personal stake' in an argument because you think you are so justly right is really just plain arrogance. That is something I already said, but you don't really seem to get where I'm coming from. You just stay on your viewpoint, and I'll understand both stances.

I think its all the pathos you bring to the table with every compounded utterance which begs the questions one could only dream of possessing the ample time to address. Bringing emotianal baggage into a public forum is bad form. Get a grip on your tongue, then maybe people would afford you the attention you both demand and in leave dismiss by.

I honestly don't have a dog here. I just have a natural impulse to correct misinformation and misguided emotional iconisms wherever I spy them.

offtopic: Btw, is this forum dead now? I thought it had become a sort of spiritual successor to past forums for an instant. But now it seems to've returned to a handful of holdout participants.

I really am not putting my emotions into a thread on a forum. I'm stating facts. You said one thing, and did the other. By the way, you have a different perception of whats misinformed or misguided. Thus, when you try to correct people, you come across as an asshole. I'm just really tired of this 'post battle'. You won't understand me, I won't understand you. Might as well just end this so people, whoever does come as we probably scared them off with this bullshit, can talk about P3 Fes.

My friend Ecks is looking forward to seeing it hit UK, I'll be calling him to see if Europe didn't get shorthanded on the deal.

I wasn't correcting you. I was just providing an alternative perspective, which seemed needed, because of the heavy handed way you (and others) were conducting yourselves.

The way you assert  yourself and load your sentences is highly suggestive of emotional investment (Maybe that is just a superficial part of Emo culture -- which is something I don't begin to comprehend. However) It is an irresponsible way to present your thoughts via the internet, where many impressionable people from diverse backgrounds form their opinions. It naturally invites concerned people to even the playing field.

There isn't a ton to say about Fes, and I am an "asshole". Just for the record.

Unfortunatly, I have to inform you , yksehtniycul that you are dragging this on even more. Neao already tried to end this. HOWEVER, this is not the topic.

I think it's good that the UK will get it. I would like it too, but, i can live without it as well, so, that's cool.

and also, Neao, who Is the charachter in your avatar? I can't see him well.

I never protested to dragging. Though I prefer to think of it as dredging :yarr:

It's Gale from Digital Devil Saga.

And Yksehtniycul, I apologize for going after you for my views on gaming piracy. And any emotional views I put into my posts are probably by accident, though I don't really see it. I just put down my thoughts about what is going on. If the argument leads to a personal strike to another, I would have to respond with a relatively 'personal' post. Though, I highly doubt anything here is truely personal in the first place, other than views someone doesn't have a problem expressing in public. But there was some folly, I feel, on both our parts, anyway.

My view on Fes: It would be ok to have it, but I am content with 100+ hours of content in the first place.

For the record...I also made the below statement.

When it is right? Maybe if you plan to buy the original product when you can and are broke now it is acceptable or it is the "only way" you can get certain things in your country. I don't think entertainment should be for just a select few but at the same time to do it just for bragging rights or as a status symbol is juvenile and stupid.


Lastly this discussion has nothing to do with the topic which is the UK possibly getting  Persona 3 or the Festival variant. By most rules in a forum people should keep post related to what is being discussed. Piracy has nothing to do with an annoucement that P3 might be coming to the Unitied Kingdom through KOEI.

Personally I'm damn happy with P3 even without the extra content. I'm curious about the new stuff but not so much I feel devastated I did not receive it.

I didn't bring up the topic of piracy in the context of either thread. Piracy is a relavent, because if you are in the UK, and FES isn't released, or takes too long, then piracy is the only alternative outside of importing, and there really isn't any ethical ambiguity or superiority between either of those options if both are available to you. I prefer to import Japanese titles, but most people shouldn't be forced to play a game etc in a language etc they don't want to. Same goes for FES in the states. That's just bad business, and you can't make an ethical argument that it must be patronized.

offtopic: I apologize btw for earlier complaining about the cryptic title of FES. I see now that those zany Japanese have "FES" printed right on the box!

Well if it is the "only way" UK can get FES I'm not uptight about them pirating it. After all they should get an equal chance to  experience a good rpg as everyone else. Of course I'm hoping that such a drastic measure will not be necessary and KOEI will come through.

Like  I said Piracy is a gray area. It can be  good then again it can be bad and ones intentions and their situation is what defines it as justified or not.

My friend recently had to pirate a game simply because they do not release it anymore and it is impossible to find in stores . He is a very honest person and would gladly  shell out cash for it but that's impossible when  said  product is no longer being manufactured.  

I suppose in a way piracy is relevant to the topic but I still see it as a last resort. Give KOEI a  chance to release it but then if they fail, rip it.