DIGITAL_DEVIL_DATABASE Community Forum

2008. Book it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=jpconewsstory&refer=jpconews&tkr=7866:JP&sid=a3cqmF.j765M

I hope it´s true, they need to keep alive the PS2 with such great titles like Persona, but the question is, if they´re going to release it, it will be a different story from both Persona 3 and Persona Trinity Soul, or it will be a sequel of one of those?

Strange thing they say, "PS2" I thought the next megaten game was going to be on the new generation of consoles. But if they´re going to make it for the PS2, better for me.

The PS2 really seems like a console that should never go out of production. I remember Famicoms being produced well near the end of the Super Famicom life cycle, and many games, most only released in Japan, were added to its catalog as well. The PS2 seems an even more extreme case, as people are completely uninterested in the PS3, and lets face it, the PS2 is like a car for games. Most people just need to get where they are going. The PS3 is a super car for enthusiasts -- at least until the programming monkeys can get their banannas in a row.

I really find it strange as well that they decided for the PS2.Seeing as how,even Nippon Ichi jumped the band wagon and is making Dis3 for the PS3,yet the graphics really look like they belong on the PS2.

But anyways...either way,I'm not upset it's going to be on the PS2.

No. I'd rather wait for a game that actually has a chance of being good. They honestly need to ditch the Persona series because Atlus has proven they can no longer make decent Persona games. I'd rather have another Shin Megami Tensei game, as long as they don't screw it up as bad as they did Persona 3.


My guess is because this generation really sucks so far. All three of the consoles are huge disappointments, especially when it comes to RPGs. I think it's also financially more practical to make it for the PlayStation 2, because it's safe to say most gamers own a PlayStation 2, whereas only a fraction own the other consoles.

Safe isn't the word, not crazy! is more like it. Any publisher Atlus' size has no business producing a PS3 game unless it is completely subsidized / insured (produced) by Sony.

But yeah, Atlus and Megaten in general are an odd couple in my book. Cave has out done Atlus at every turn in handling Imagine (once you adjust for the margin of retard-ness which plagues all contemporary JRPGs)

I agree,the PS2 has proven to support more RPG titles than the others...which is why I haven't bought a Wii or a Xbox at all.There just isn't enough RPGs to make me want to buy any of them,maybe like..3 or 4 titles at most? That I can only think of at the moment,that is really nothing,compared to how many RPG titles I have heard of or own myself.

I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that Shin Megami Tensei 4 will be on the PlayStation 3.


The XBox 360 is getting some RPGs, but they're not all that good. It'll be getting Lost Odyssey, as well, next year [in the U.S.], but that game doesn't seem like it'll stand out all that much.

Me too! I think SMT 4 will be on the PS3, hope so, cause I don´t want to see a megaten game for the Xbox or the Wii (I don´t like at all those consoles).

I wouldn't mind it on the XBox 360, but I'm always paranoid the damn thing is going to die on me. Just a few days ago, I was playing Oblivion, and as I was about to shoot some fireballs at a rat, I got a "the disc is unreadable" error. What the hell the disc is unreadable? For $400, I expect the goddamn disc to be readable. If this kind of thing persists, I will cease my support of the XBox 360.

The Xbox sure is good, but not as good as the PS (in my opinion). And about Wii, I don´t have good experiences with the NINTENDO since the N64. So I rather want to see the next megaten game on the PS3, of course :king:

I think Kaneko expressed interest in making a Megami Tensei game for the Revolution, but I have no idea where I read that. I don't know how that'd work out -- I don't think the Revolution is really the kind of console that developers should be putting RPGs on.

Exactly! It´s good for sport and maybe fighting games, but I don´t see a good rpg for it. And I never want to see a Megaten game for the Wii.

What? What is so bad about P3? The gameplay is way better than past Persona's.

They´re just matter of opinions, for example, for me you will always hear that all the megaten games are the best games ever made, but maybe for Heat, they´re probably the worst games ever made.

Nonsense, and this is coming from someone who detested IS/EP. P3 was "fun" (and I "enjoyed" playing it, more so than I did IS/EP), but ultimately a trivial experience. From my perspective it lacked artistic integrity, not "horrible" but trendy nonsense nonetheless.

It is important to remember, I think, that -streamlined- is not necessarily indicative of -improvement-.

As interesting as this news is, the factuality of it is HIGHLY unlikely.

One of the reasons I haven't got a 360 yet.  

I wouldn't mind if P4 was for the PS2.

Game play? It's an RPG. It's the plot, characters, music, art, et cetera that made the game bad, not the "game play". Although, the dungeon crawling, and high school sim aspects were pretty bad, too, but those are things I probably could tolerate if the storyline wasn't stupid, and the characters weren't unlikeable. I can't even remember the names of the characters in Persona 3, that's how unlikeable they were, and how much I didn't give a shit about them. None of them stood out at all. They were just a bunch of annoying Japanese kids. The characters in Innocent Sin, and to a lesser extent, Eternal Punishment, were far easier to relate to, to sympathize with, and to like in general.

I had more to say, but I'm sick of talking about Persona 3. I'll just say it failed to live up to the "Persona" name in every way possible. It felt like they were more concerned with trying to appeal to the general public than making a good game.


You're misinterpreting an older post of mine. If I thought it was the worst series ever made, I wouldn't be posting here.

I am generally conflicted about P3, I mean I am playing it and enjoying it and finding it entertaining, but it could have been better.
Like I personally I have always found random-dungeon-generated games to be a bit... weak... (Azure Dreams... *twitch*)
And also it terms of the Dating Highschool sim aaspect of it, it's a neat incorporation to an RPG I just wish it wasn't in one from the MegaTen franchise, and also I find it distracts from the real purpose of the game, and maybe I just suck but I know I wouldn't've found half the people to build relationships with if it hadn't been for walkththroughs/online guides.

Also, I am waiting for P3 to be epic, like I just passed the part after the first 'final battle'  and it hasn't been epic... like I remember playing Nocturne, fighting Metatron (I think that was his name in the Labyrinth) and how epic it was and how I used mad skills of the press turn system to beat him....
And DDS(2) was pretty epic at time (I LOVED that game, I know many people strongly disliked it)....

And I also don't exactly like how you don't have full control over the entire party, I mean their AI is usually good... but sometimes I'm not "That attack doesn't work on that enemy... and that character knows that..." Or when they use a mudo-style skill on an enemy that has a tiny bit on HP left... that annoys me too....

But by no means do I dislike the game, just some things I think could've been done better.

That really pissed me off. Never deny the player the ability to control their party.

I hate P1/P2's battle systems. The only thing those games have going for them are their stories, in my opinion. And a few dungeons. P3, however, has almost every thing I'd ever want from a Japanese rpg gameplay wise.


Huh? So you're saying SMT games, games that primarily are gameplay oriented and not story oriented, should not be judged on gameplay but...story?

Right. I thought the story was fine. I liked the story in Persona 2 more, but the characters in P3 were all excellent.

P3 was my 1st SMT, I loved it *shrugs*  

But then again I loved Suikoden IV, my 1st Suikoden game, and the worst one of the series.

First off, why is quoting broken for this forum? The M-Quote does nothing, literally nothing.


Atlus would do this just to prove it can / get some experience with the tech. But it will either mean taking a major loss or waiting a long time to release a SMT4.

It is true the PS2 is incredibly weak hardware in many aspects. But an operation like Atlus can't begin to mine out a machine like the PS3. They can only find novel ways to abuse its muscle for ecclectic effects. In any case, it seems many developers like Atlus will be dragged kicking and screaming into this round of console tech, or the whole generation will bust.

Sony should be marketing the PS3 as a budget PC and gamebox in one, and Microsoft will probably release an all new Xbox before the PS3 even starts to pickup steam.

You aren't really taking into account how popular the PS3 is in Japan, which is the country SMT is initially developed for. It outsold the Wii in November, and with Final Fantasy XIII coming up you know PS3 sales will skyrocket even if the game is complete crap. Whether or not the game will be localized might be an issue, but I don't think Atlus will have any problems releasing SMT4 for the PS3.

And Metal Gear Solid 4!!

I think P3 was fine...

I do think Persona one was better though. story and character wise.

Atlus should stay with Sony. It fits them, and besides, x-box would lose money.

PS3 is selling SOOO much more than the X in Japan.

I would have to find the article but the people at Atlus are interested in bringing a Tensei to Wii. The info was from a while back so that position may have changed, but Baroque to me seems to point at a possible Megaten Wii game.

If it's true, it makes me sad.  Personally I think the novelty of the Wii gimmick has worn out already, and I'd hate to see a Megaten game go that way.  Unless they decide to skip out on the motion control bit.

I suppose it'd be interesting to see what they could come up with if they did do that though.

I hope so because i don't have enough euro to buy a playstation 3...
By the way i'm still waiting the Pal relase of Persona 3 in Italy (it' seems to be 29 febraury)
So I don't rush for a Persona 4 yet XD

This move very well may be what made me into an Atlus fan.  The PS3 and 360 are WAY too expensive to produce games for, to the point that most analysts say that it could cause a crash in the game industry by the end of this generation, and certainly after the next.  Atlus seems to be the only company sensible enough to see this.

‧TTTLE: PERSONA 4
‧SYSTEM: PlayStation 2
‧GENRE: RPG
‧Release Date: July 10, 2008
‧Release Region: Japan
‧PRICE: 7329円
http://blog.roodo.com/dds/archives/5717861.html (http://blog.roodo.com/dds/archives/5717861.html)

ps2. july japan release. 2009 USA goty.

http://i30.tinypic.com/nzos9u.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/xnzv3b.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/161nxq9.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/14tmp92.jpg

- The game takes place in the country side away from the cities, which is interesting for SMT
- the theme is mystery suspense (:o P2-esque please)
- Supposed to be a mystery full of twists and turns
- There is a weather system and whenever there's fog, a murder happens
- 1.5 x the size of P3
- multiple endings
- 60-70 hours

Mystery suspense bitches.

That... Is PURE sweetness... But, of course, we'll have to wait and see, either for more info or the actual game.

Pretty much as Persona 3, the characters look awesome but once again Kaneko didn`t work on the design of the characters :crying:  and all the characters wear glasses O_O

PS2!! This is just awesome!! :)

They summon the persona with glasses

Man looking at those images and reading that p4 is coming for the ps2 should make me happy but it kinda bothers me how persona 4 looks kinda like a knock off of persona 3. I liked persona 3(thought I was gonna hate it) but I don't want another carbon cut out of the same game(The battle screen and battle icons almost made me jump

I red the differences with the setting and story but ehh what the heck I will just preorder it anyway when I get the chance since rpg's for the ps2 are drying up anyway but looking at those images of persona 4 made me realise how much I liked persona 2 over 3.

where the fucking shit is the trailer

Bleh.... =_=

In the country huh?

Since P3 was in the city and the music was mostly pop, rap, maybe we'll get country music this time around. lawlz

Oh man don't even joke like that.:crying:

O_O Weird...

Wow, those pics look like a depressing mix of really cool and really stupid. Can someone keep the stupid out of my cool please?

Actually... that's an awesome idea!  The closest thing to Japanese country music is enka, which would be a welcome change of pace if ATLUS chooses to go that route.  And if they make it so you can go to more than six places in town that would be great too...

I don't get the glasses-thing though.  That just sounds plain retarded.  I mean, the whole suicide with guns thing I can sort of understand but eye glasses...? really...

...

Really?

EDIT:
I spy with my little eye... Izanagi?  That Soejima guy is really struggling with the Persona designs.  Anyone know who "Jiraiya" and "Tomoe" are supposed to be?

- Looks like Persona 3 with slightly better graphics.
- Takes place in the countryside.
- The theme is murder/mystery,it's a mystery thriller.
- No Kaneko and Meguro is composing again...
- 85% Complete already
- July 10th release
- about 60-70 hours long (shorter than Persona 3?)
- Multiple endings like Persona 3
- High school setting again
- Over 180 reused Personae!
- Social manipulation returns with the Social Link system!
- The main characters wear glasses to summon persona (lol)
- The protagonist looks like Akihiko with a dumb haircut.
- Two of the protagonist's classmates are Yousuke Hanamura and Chie Satonaka. The former is a loud mouth and is quite a show-off.The latter is a lively and sociable young lady who loves to chat (the new Junpei and Yukari).
- There is a weather forecast system, and whenever there is fog,a murder occurs (basically the calendar from Persona 3,except the weather forecast replaces the moon phases).

Atlus sure didn't waste any time trying to milk the success of Persona 3 (FES,the apparently crappy anime and now,a new persona game).Persona 4 sounds like more of the same...I guess that's a good thing if you liked the previous "Persona" game.

Yeah Persona is definitely shaping into its own (tragically lame) beast.

I guess P3 was one of the biggest successes ATLUS has had with Megaten in recent years so it's the safest move really to milk it for all it's worth.

Where the fuck is Kaneko?  He just sort of dropped off after Raidou, never to be heard from again.  They just keep on taking his art from old games and putting them in the new ones...

This cannot be!! :crying: :crying:


Totally agree!! I was hopping to see the art of Kaneko in next megaten game.

Where is Kazuma Kaneko!!! :yell:

17min trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/190947.html#comments_top)

Checked out the trailer,I'm liking the brown haired guy with the headphones.

Sort of reminds me of Junpei.

Also starting to see...that I don't think the glasses are used for summoning Personas as we thought,instead it's the cards this time.

It's possible the glasses could be for detecting shadows maybe?

-Meguro's sticking to a similar style for the music and a few of the songs from P3 are reused.
-They slightly improved the broken battle system.
-Egor is now alone and the Velvet Room is located on a train.
-There are plot-related randomized dungeons.
-There's a fishing mini-game.
-The towns are smaller and the dungeons are bigger.
-The game features Trinity Soul quality cutscenes.

Is Elizabeth the person that appears next to Igor?

Anyway, it will be like a year waiting for this game to be localized, but I want it no matter the wait XD

Elizabeth is not in Persona 4.

Ok thanks! hehe It`s just she looks like Elizabeth but with long hair.

Her name is Margaret.

Changes from P3:

1. No moon cycle. This is a very big change for SMT, because the moon cycles have been important in pretty much every one, right?

This, however, is GREAT for Persona 4 for a few reasons. This means that since things are entirely based on weather, things won't be as predictable as P3's moon system.

2. There's no Shadow Time. In one part they show the crew in a dungeon "after school", in one part they're there at "daytime" which was during summer break since it was during July 29. What does this mean for the formula? Will it be possible to skip school in P4?

3. There's more than one dungeon and they're all unique to each other. Here's hoping there's meat to them. I'm talkin, puzzles and TRAPS SMTN style. My buddy noticed an underground lab, a strip club, and a castle mansion.

4. Characters can now help each other up if they are knocked down.

5. You can now control more than just the main character. In one part of the trailer, I showed you in control of the red head dude. Either that was the red lights shining on the main's hair, or you can control them.

I'm done with the series.I don't plan on buying any more persona games after playing Persona 3.Persona 4 is shaping up to be a rushed sequel (P3 only came out a year ago) with only a few changes from the previous title.

A bold judgement for a game that has yet to have a hands-on preview. With what little information known to us it is far too early to call. In regards to development time, think upon all the big budget triple AAA titles that recieve a sequel yearly. The engine is there already and all that is needed is the other artistic sources. Atlus is a small team, but they are skilled craftsman and their track record has been nearly sterling. (Ignoring Devil Summoner) We also don't have the entire details on the gameplay to call it a mere rehash. I would be more positive on this Lugn, otherwise you may possible miss out on the best Persona yet.

Wait, you're done with the series now? What about when Persona 2 had a second part that came out almost exactly a year after the first one? Why weren't you done then? Although only one half got localized, you could still pull the lazy card on Atlus then, so why wait 8 years? I, for one, am enjoying Persona 2, even though the images of innocent sin look exactly like eternal punishment. Does that ruin the game for me that they probably minimized developmental processes by using the same exact system? Not at all, I'm thoroughly immersed in the game. I'll hold all criticism about this till I get the game.

There hasn't been a remotely playable Megaten game released by Atlus since the first Persona (haven't got around to DS:SH) in my book. I have hopes for the new Soul Hackers title though. Even though I've had it laying around here for ages ever since Imagine grabbed my interest.

It is kinda funny to see people fawning over these games.

P2:EP was a continuation of the story,not a completely different sequel.Persona 2 was released three years after the first Persona game.



I didn't wait even half that long and I enjoyed P2 for the most part (unlike P3).

I'm looking forward to the game.  Always happy to see they don't go the route of the gravity-defying hair-do for the main character.

Whatever Lugn, I still see some lapse in logic there. Regardless of story, Persona 2 was released a year after, and I'm betting it was near normal retail price of a new game. Because they used the same system, same graphics etc. to make it I'm sure the price to create it was lesser than when making IS, so why weren't you angered when you learned about this? This would still qualify as a 'rushed' release, wouldn't it? After all, they didn't try anything new when doing it, they just did what fans asked(correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that a main factor for EP was because fans demanded it): A continuation of the story. And I said eight years as an indication to when it was made and how long the gap between when the same event occurred, although this occurrence is speculation because we don't truly know how Persona 4 will play. I didn't actually believe you waited eight years, anyway. I haven't even known about Megaten for half that length. After all, it's your choice to not buy subsequent releases from Atlus, not like it matters at all.

By the way, yksehtniycul, whose ass are megaten fans kissing? Can't really kiss an ass when it isn't there.

http://p4.atlusnet.jp/ (http://p4.atlusnet.jp/) is now aviable, but it only shows the persona 4 logo and tthe text coming soon

That's...mildly interesting. Nevermind, it isn't really. It's a pretty boring page for a game that's supposedly 85% done. Could've added some artwork or something.

Wow. I don't know what to say.

That's kind of ridiculous that I have to watch the preview on a monitor which then breaks down smaller into a streaming video window, which breaks down yet even SMALLER into an 80s tv screen...

Anyway I can't really make out most of the text on the magazine images, especially where the the pages curl into the binding and where the flash from the camera shows up.  It's cool that they're high resolution but that doesn't really help much with photographs as much as scans.  From what I can gather though it's pretty much as other people have said.  It isn't too clear about how time progresses in the game other than with the new weather system so I couldn't really tell you if you can skip school yet.

And I didn't think it was possible BUT the music seems almost worse...:beaten: It's not you're pappy's Persona anymore, kids.

The music sounds better to me, the song at the very end aside.

That`s the final logo? Too simple I guess...

I'm going to have to fight all my instincts to ignore that troll.

I'd worry more about a game that's pushed back several times than one released early.  How do you know that it wasnt in production since shortly after P3's production began?  It's not like the FF series didnt manage to pull off rapid releases from 6 - 10.  Then 12 came out after having years of time (and a delayed release date) and it was the worst game SE ever came out with.

Incidentally, rapid fire releases like this could really put Atlus on the map as a first rate RPG publisher now that SE has shown vulnerability.

I've become weary of thinking anything that doesn't have 'imo' stapled all over it is trying to be stated as fact, so I'll just point out the obvious subjectivity there. Even though I do not like FFXII too much, I cannot deny the fact that it is a well made game. It is a stable RPG with much to offer for what SE wanted it to do, regardless of how mediocre I think it is. Not much can be done to put JRPG developers 'on the map' aside from Square Enix, regardless of subjective opinions. The fact is that Final Fantasy XII was still praised by critics and a good number of fans. SE will be what most Americans who don't know much of other Japanese developers will think of when they here the term JRPG, that won't change for a while. Especially with American RPGs taking the forefront, I'd say that JRPGs as a whole are going to take the back burner for quite some time. Most American RPG fans want more Bioware RPGs akin to Mass Effect not a series called Shin Megami Tensei(Shin Magenta? Shin Magama?), though that name will probably not even reach their ears.

By the way, vulnerability? If anything most critics thought FFXII was ambitious, bringing them to a higher esteem than before. Remember, critics sway a good part of the sales. I can assure you Atlus won't be going too far on American shores other than the peak sales they saw with Persona 3, sadly.

Persona 4 note: I hope the soundtrack isn't a majority of pop and hip hop. But then again  it'd just be my opinion when I say that I'd prefer them to do a soundtrack in the vein of SMT III or DDS, so I'll just take what they give me for what it is.

Heh,I agree.I feel the same way...I'm not a fan of the pop or hip hop P3 had,but it goes well with the atmosphere of the game,so I can't really argue or say it's horrible when I'm used to it already,and as Neao says about just taking it as it is.

I really loved the Norturne and DDS OSTs the most.

This trend will come full circle once gaijin otakus are making music for NA produced games with japanese lyrics. Perhaps only then will Japan realize the pure evil of it's ways!

The real shame for me with these games is I really dig a lot about the presentation. Especially the fights look pretty fun. But there is just so much going on that is so incredibly unbelievable production values or director's competence wise, I've no urge at all to play this trailer. Have JRPG's become just a fetish in the states or am I missing something more?

I agree!! The music it`s perfect for the game, people who likes this kind of JMusic really find a really cool soundtrack on P3, and I still wonder how does P3 would "sound" if it has music like Nocturne or Avatar Tuner, in it?

But what keep me intrigued is the story, I care much about the story and then about the music, and the rare "glasses" stuff :updown:

You're definently missing something more. You seem to have this unflinching cynicism towards JRPGs, well Atlus specifically as I don't know much of what you like, and it seems to distort your enjoyment for the parts you like about the genre. At least, that's what I see. I haven't seen much praise for Atlus' games from you at all, aside from those pseudo praises you give out on occasion. It's fine that you don't like them, but calling them unplayable? Unless you meant that you yourself could not sit down and play the games for more than five minutes, I get what you mean. But they are certainly are 'playable' by general standards.  

About this 'fetish' thing: I understand JRPGs are catered to a specific crowd, but I do not think it's that bad. Sure, there are variations all around that are within the bounds of its genre. You could say the same towards any genre, they all do things to cater to a specific person. In light of a better word, because fetish is just a horrible word period, they're more obscure. I wouldn't call them a fetish because, as I said before, any game in any genre would focus on what their game is supposed to be. Therefore, if you want to play a shooter because you desire a shooter specifically for enjoyment, isn't that a fetish too? Awareness of a genre doesn't have much to do with it, since technically all of these games fall under the fetish classification.

Persona 4(Otherwise my post would be way off-topic): I have faith that Atlus will give me an enjoyable game. They haven't let me down since I first got into the series. Each subsequent game I've played has been great, and I hold high hopes for this one. This murder/mystery take is also a very intriguing one, I'll enjoy seeing where they take it.

Most of the people who're complaining about the new direction the Persona series has taken are people who have been playing the games since it started (or soon afterwards) back in the late 90s.  Also, if you really want to get technical these releases are much different than the two P2s.  P3->FES->Persona 4 all released within a span of two years is a little rushed, no matter how you slice it.  Perhaps for you P4 will turn out to be a fun game, but for the people who didn't much care for P3 I think it's pretty safe to assume they won't like P4, even based sheerly on the small preview we've seen.

And finally:

Explain this line of thinking.  Since when has bad Jpop EVER been synonymous with summoning creatures with Tarot cards?  Movethatbody movethatbody makesureyoudon'thurtnobody yeahyeahyeah is hardly atmospheric.

It´s just matter of tastes, for me the music of P3 was just "normal" since I like J-Music, but other people who don´t know to much or don´t like J-Music at all, find the soundtrack really annoying, and of course, its not that ALL the tracks are AMAZING.

Maybe when we refer to the "atmosphere of the game" we meant, about the teenage life that you take the role of, and not the "dark" or "occult" role of the game.

Yeah,Emilio sums it up pretty well.

Take Nocturne and DDS,they have more of a dark,morbid, and it's the end of the world already atmosphere.

Sure P3 has it's dark moments,but it's not like through out the game,everybody is dead and the Shadows were running around the place,like how there are demons everywhere in DDS and Nocturne.

Is it me or does the new Hero look dull?

(http://www.rpgamer.com/games/persona/persona4/propaganda/persona45.jpg)

If I'm honest, I'm not impressed. The US hasn't even got FES yet and P4's already has a release date? The characters don't look much different than P3's characters and Trinity Soul is a pretty bad anime (it's so goddamned boring and the Persona designs are too blurry and a let down) - Atlus is worrying me at this point.

I hope they pour everything into Shin Megami Tensei 4.

One word for the main guy of persona 4..
BOWLCUT! ugh.. and yeah he looks boring.

With persona 3's main guy (Not calling him minato for fear of attack)
people talk about how he is emo looking and all that but it was just a hair style.
I don't know how to label this but I just so far like persona 3's main guy more.

Yea, while P3's main character looked more "mysterious" I guess you could say, P4's main looks more bland/dull in comparison. Vaguely reminds me of Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh with that ugly hair, but Kaiba was cooler (and that's not saying much XD)


I totally agree. I like what I've played of P3 so far, but I liked Nocturne a whole lot more, (enough to replay it a few more times) ^^; If I do end up getting P4, it'd only be to attempt to gain my Nocturne party in persona form XD
I think i saw a kid on the party on that 15 minute trailer thing; I wonder if they'll have a random animal join the team too, (imagine a ferret with summoning glasses! I don't really want to see another dog though...)

If Atlus wants to keep spamming this series they might as well make a game based on Koromaru's adventures before joining SEES; it could be called "Fursona" XD I think that'd be better than P4 anyways ;>>

pics from the famitsu site

(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p401.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p402.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p403.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p404.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p405.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p406.jpg)
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(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p408.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/__icsFiles/artimage/2008/03/18/pc_fc_n_gs/080321p409.jpg)
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The anime style looks incredibly generic by contemporary standards. I've probably only seen a handful of seconds combined of the P3 anime cutscenes on television, but I swear it looked like some of the most interesting anime art I've seen in years. Was that just choice cuts for the trailer, or how would you compare the two anime wise?

I should probably try youtube or something to see if I can find more of it.

I really despise the kind of anime used in P4 though. Its just the pinnacle of derivative or something. Its just lame, there I said it.

The music is just disappointing, cause it seems like Persona could be a really music driven game. There is much better music than this in japan. I wonder if it is produced in house or not, or if these are popular singles?

Did that singer just say hur?

editted: I dunno if its Persona really, but I'm really impressed with the opening P3 movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzHpCOPsVbo

I even think a heavy dose of rap in the score would've probably been the right fit for it if pulled off cleverly. Of course lyrics in a bgm you have to listen to every fight is a rule #1 no no!

--- I swear this anime is the best I've seen in more than a decade.

As far as Persona is concerned, the first games characters were kinda lame, but the atmosphere was pure genius. As for the rest of the series, and Megaten largely since, the descriptor I have to stick to it is really idiotic. I admit, calling the games unplayable, was perhaps rash... what I really meant was un-stomach-able I guess. I mostly blame Kazuma, who must regard himself as an infaliable demi-god by now to seriously pull all the shit out of his ass he does. The only technically good piece in his third Megaten book:

http://www.dokuganryu.com/scans/megaten/kanekoIII/563.jpg

I can't really pinpoint the man. My best guess is he completely fried his brains on drugs about three times in his career, and restarted virtually from scratch each time. He really needs an editor that understands the rudiments of composition.

I apologize for really going overboard. But ask, and you shall receive :contract:

editted: I say "career", but near as I can tell, he basically has done art for nearly every megaten video game ever, and little else. I'm pretty sure he's responsible for MT2 at least. The MT2 sprite art is actually much better than the manual art, which kaneko did I'm pretty sure now. His art then really seemed extremely amateurish, but unique. Honestly, I'm surprised anyone would hire him with that stuff. He probably was a friend of someones. But MT2 was a pretty major game nonetheless. I guess anime really trumped games back then. Fun fact, I think MT2 might be regarded as the most sophisticated Famicom cart musically.

editted: I think where we differ, is you're a japanese video game fan, and I'm an art fan. The problem is Megaten can skirt so dangerously close to serious art at times :)

I'm always looking for that moment where video games become real art. Not necessarily fine art, but somewhere beyond purely commercial art. Pop art maybe. If by pop art, you mean real artists speaking in the language of popular culture versus advertisers masquerading as concerned artists.

I still think I might really enjoy P3 (probably mostly because Kazuma is not involved), but sadly, P4 does look like a sub par effort released on the back of P3 for dubious financial motives.

Yeah I guess we do differ in that aspect. Although I still believe video games are a form of art in their own part, but I don't much care for art so I don't look at it in an artistic perspective, I just look at it as a game. I always thought the art in the Megaten games were fine, it didn't repel me from the screen, but then again I've only had up to high school education in art so what do I know? I understand where your coming from now, but don't fully agree. I won't get on your case on this anymore since I found the reason:P.

I've always loved Kaneko's art. Alongside - let's say, Tetsuya frickin' Nomura - I think his artwork is a breath of fresh air in purely JRPG terms. His work on the Persona series, Lucifer's Call and Digital Devil Saga are what inspired me to start concept designing. I don't worship the ground he walks on, but in a over-populated sometimes insipid genre, his work stands out.

Argilla's design still gives me the giggles ^_^

On to P4, it has been called a "clone of P3" by rpgamer and I have to say I half agree. I'm secretly pleased it's on PS2 (in my book, there's still a great variety of games on it I'm interested in) but hope it does something to distinguish itself from P3. I really like the idea that the lead wears glasses.

See, I've always thought Kaneko was the saving grace of a lot of Megaten games.  I mean let's face it, without interesting demons the game series would be pretty much for crap.  And Kaneko has drawn every single one of them (aside from the new Persona in P3 & P4).  He's essentially to Megaten what Toriyama is to Dragon Quest.  To tell you the truth the only real character designs he came up with that I thought were maybe a little questionable were Persona 2's, and those I think really because they fell short of what they were supposed to be... also the way he drew Maya's jacket? - no self-respecting woman would ever wear that.

His early stuff really is amateurish, but compared to other video games of the period that was pretty standard.  I mean look at the character drawings for the original Rock Man games sometime, they aren't much better.  The only good art in games back then seemed to be painted on the sides of arcade machines or on the occasional cheesy box-art (I've often wondered what became of the many 80s box-art painters of the world).

It´s the occult and post-apocalyptic themes, that make Megaten what it is. And about Kaneko´s art, for me, its just the best!! I admired Tetsuya Nomura a lot, but since FFX the characters began to suck, though I really like all characters design from FFVII and FFVIII, (being Squall, Vincent, Cloud and Sephiroth the best). And once I discovered the art of Kaneko, no other could catch my attention as Kaneko did.

Of course, this is just my opinion, as other may look at Kaneko´s art like crap or other (like me) look at Kaneko´s art, and believe he´s the best.

Without Kaneko´s art, all the Megaten games would not be the same!! After all, he´s the Demon Artist! He´s just the best of the best, with both demons and characters design. :notworth::notworth:

I enjoy his art on a mind opening level. I have no complaints about his stuff pre-SMT2 (SMT2 probably being his finest hour) ...I know he had something to do with Persona, but I just can't believe the man who did the final compositions for Persona (MIP) is the same man now producing this ridiculous SMT3 type stuff. He's like a guy flying a jumbo jet that never learned to how to take off or land. His stuff really starts pissing me off with the Devil Summoner games.

I guess maybe I would sum up the new style, as less a meeting of spiritual beings and magical creatures, and more like a saturday morning cartoon show full of lots of wacked out colourful things that would look good in plastic geared for the 7yo demo. A technically butchered eye sore with about 10 things more going on than any character composition should ever have, most of which could be classified as outlandish fetishes. Amusing for about a second, but not much longer. The End.

PS: I really like the core devils ok enough. Almost all the IMAGINE devils are fine by me. But when he goes trying to make something original or like a one off character/boss, its always bound to be a nightmare anymore. If you look at MakenX its probably the best example of this brand of bafoonery. Its kinda ok if its limited to one game and consistent like MakenX, and you assume the game is supposed to be some whacked experience you can only find in Japan that pushes the boundaries of madness on display. But its just fucked up to do to a Megaten game (though maybe less so the Persona series given complicated contextual arguments I won't go into) ...the general degradation of his compositions since SMT2 in general though does baffle and irritate me. Ultimately though, mild success generally does amount to a decline of ability in most cases.

Did i really just fucking read this? Really? REALLY? Yeah let's forget about the gameplay, the unique stories and settings, the mature content, the wonderful characters, the sometimes open ended nature of the stories. The demon designs are totally the reason I play SMT games.

what the christ.

Yeah, out of context that really reads as something to lash out against doesn't it? :footinmou

So essentially what your saying is, if all the Nakama in every single Megaten game looked like Pocket Monsters you'd still play it?

I dunno. I quite like the sound of post-apocalyptic Satanic Pokemon beating the shit out of each other, enslaved by their power-crazed, S&M obsessed masters and mistresses who want nothing more than to sacrifice the world to their dark god. Or something.

What? I'd buy it :v:

You know, I'd throw up the argument that SMT was created well before Pokemon, but whatever. I guess for some people 1995 comes before 1992, or 89 if you want to be specific. So, if time was actually followed chronologically, you would say something like "Cuddly SMT monster in a cute setting and they  fit into little balls? Sounds like it sucks"

As much as I enjoyed P3 and am starting to look forward to P4; is anyone else thinking: Fuck the  spin-offs, I want an ACTUAL Shin Megami Tensei game.

heck yeah but for now I think shin megami tensei 4 belongs to the ps3 so I'am not ready for it to come out.

perhaps, but the day when a highly anticipated SMT game is released on the ps3, is also the day I go into debt.

THE PS2 WILL NEVER DIE!!!!

If you really want to get technical, Megaten started back in 87 with Digital Devil Monogatari Megami Tensei for the Famicom.

My statement wasn't intended to mean that Poket Monsters precluded Megaten in any way, I was just saying that if the demons were designed poorly à la Pokemon I  doubt many would still play Megaten... Which is pretty much the direction the series is taking with the new Persona games in my estimation.  Generally dumbed down, stylistically cookie-cutter, more or less mediocre in terms of game-play, horribly misled score composers, etc. etc.

I thought the Pokemon designs were rather nice. Though by now I've no clue what round they're on / whether there are any wholely original ideas left untapped.

They sure as hell beat the demi-kids or whatever over in the other thread.

I think maybe what scares me most about video game art is its penchent to strive for stylistic uniqueness while no-one has really even proven the ability to be consistantly mediocre in years. Its like trying to run before you can walk. Every production ends up flat on its face esthetically.

Thats fine for amateur comics, but we're talking multi-hundred million dollar operations here. You'd think some one on staff had enough sense to get the job done with a little finess.

the famitsu trailer was fuckin' awesome!  (just saw it)
I plan on getting it as soon as it was release.  Just like with P3

I'm thinking, fuck these games, just give me something in a new style. Apparently everything Atlus does anymore is the same tired song and dance (including every other series it juggles)

P3 looked like a promising strain, but P4 looks like rehash with a poor budget.

I'm really sick of the high gloss Kaneko stuff too. Megaten could go in so many directions artistically.

Hasn't Atlus always been like that? I mean, the primitive SMT battlesystem was rehashed constantly up to Soul Hackers, If... looked exactly the same as SMTII, etc.

The ye olde SMT gameplay isn't primitive. All I meant was a rehash should be at least as solid as its predecessor. Milking a fanbase is never cool. As for gameplay, don't look at me. I don't play ugly (esthetically ridiculous) games.

I really don't think it's fair to compare Persona 3+ with the earlier Persona games as the original Megaten director/producer, Cozy Okada, left after Nocturne, not to mention Kaneko's artwork was only recycled for personas. With a different man at the helm, you can't expect to remain on the same course after all. While I loved the intricate plots of Persona 1 and 2, you have to admit they were pretty damn ugly games for their times and had rather clunky gameplay, especially Persona 1. The simplified story and streamlined battlesystem in Persona 3 bothered me at first, but I found it to be an acquired taste...in fact, very much like most other Megaten games I played. Persona 3 looks like utter crap on paper, it's one of those games that only playing can justify enjoying. Perhaps Persona 4 will be the same.

I think it's fair to compare games with your opinion, even if there are different people involved with what you're comparing. I mean, most things compared are of things that are made by different people, and choosing not to compare things because of a difference in the minds that worked on them kind of negates many comparisons that have been made. Unless, of course, the comparison is something unfair such as limiting factors of the time like technology, in this case. But your opinion on whether adequate or inadequate effort was put into releases, past or present, different people or the same, is still fair game. Of course, this is a very brief thought on what's fair to compare and what isn't.

As a matter of fact, I enjoyed Persona 2's gameplay and I didn't find it to be clunky. Graphics didn't really bother me either. And, I don't know if you think Persona 2's story was deep (however good it was), but Persona 3 isn't that shallow compared to it. It certainly shouldn't garner contempt at the plot that was laid out. Characters can enhance a plot just as much as an intricate plot can be intriguing and engrossing(although an intriguing and intricate plot with boring characters falls flat). I enjoyed Persona 3's characters, and that amplified the plot for me.

Technically Persona 1, might be the most beautiful specimen of a game ever pulled off. It's gameplay is not too shabby either. Might be the best in the entire enterprise actually. MIP is Atlus' high water mark. MT2 is probably the high water mark of the entire franchise, but that was under the supervision of Namcot at the time. Cave is also doing a remarkable job with IMAGINE, but again, that isn't Atlus at the helm.

I enjoyed a lot Revelations Persona, like yksehtniycul say, the game was not too shabby but it has a good story and something made me play it until I finish it. Now I enjoying P3 a lot, cause I waited so long for this game and finallly I can lay my hands on it. But in my opinion Persona 2 Tsumi and Batsu were the best of its kind, the plot was awesome, the characters have something that keep you want to know more about them, the Persona`s designs were just awesome, the music fits the game.

So in other words, Persona 2, both Tsumi and Batsu are the best in all aspects. Even though I really enjoyed all other Persona games, Tsumi and Batsu always will keep at #1. (but I will add the same thing as always, "just my opinion")

What the hell happened to Tony?

That is really not on topic. And I still keep in contact with Tony, basically, the short version of the story is he quit the site.  Long story.  Well there is a reason I told the short version of the story.

I never played the original persona(Only red the script) and I never had the honor of playing persona 2 innocent sin. but I did play persona 2 eternal punishment and persona 3 and I say persona 2 was the best so far.
The characters personalities, story, persona's and battle system had me hooked from the beginning after I ordered it off ebay. I played and beat this game 4 months before persona 3 came out and if not for this game I would have never gotten persona 3(I thought it looked stupid).

A couple of updates were made to the Persona 4 page (since I last seen it)

http://p4.atlusnet.jp/